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1994-06-07CONSERVATION COMMISSION BEVERLY, MASSACHUSETTS MINUTES OF JUNE 7 1994 SPECIAL MEETING FOR SUBDIVISION AT 759 HALE STREET #5-462. MEETING CALLED TO ORDER @ 7:50 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT CHAIRMAN COTREAU, GLENN TERRY, DR. MAYO JOHNSON, NANCY LODGE, DAVID LANG, CLAYTON SMALL AND BILL LISS BILL LISS MOTIONED PUBLIC HEARING SESSION AND GLENN TERRY THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR PUBLIC HEARiNG - DANIEL FINN SUBDIVISION AT 759 HALE STREET #5-462. REPRESENTING, MICHAEL JULIANO, ENGINEER FROM MERIDIAN ENGR. / PEABODY DR. MAYO JOHNSON - THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE RUNOFF FROM CHUBBS BROOK? ENGR. - MAINTENANCE PEAK FLOW THE POST DEVELOPMENT IS SLIGHTLY LESS., BASICALLY THE SAME. NANCY LODGE - ROAD HOTOP OR PEBBLES? FINN - BITUMINOUS CONCRETE ASPHALT 3-1/2' SUBDIVISION LAW. DAVID LANG - ANYMORE INFORMATION ON THE FILLING AND THE APPROXIMATE SIZE, ALSO WHEN IT BEGAN AND WHEN IT WAS COMPLETED. FINN - ALL IN LAST WEEK'S PACKET HANDED OUT AT THE MEETING / ALSO REFERENCE TO FORMER CHAIRMAN GILMORE'S LETTER OF MAY 1992. ENGR. - THE FILLING TOOK PLACE BETWEEN 1985-1986, OVER A 6-YEAR PERIOD AND ENDED IN 1992 DONE BY DRINKWATER CONSTRUCTION. DURING THE FILLING, 3-4 CONSERVATION MEMBERS WERE ON THE SITE. A CONSERVATION INSPECTOR, AND THE DPW COMMISSION, AND ALL IN THE TOWN WERE AWARE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE TIME. THE LAND IS NOT BORDERING VEGETATED WETLAND AND IT IS NOT AN ISOLATED LAND SUBJECT TO FLOODING AND IS NOT PROTECTABLE UNDER THE ACT. IN REFERENCE TO VERNAL POOLS, THEY ARE NOT LISTED IN THE MASSACHUSETTS MANUAL (LATEST EDITION), THEREFORE, THE LAND IS NOT LISTED NOR IS IT PROTECTABLE. ENGR. JULIANO CONTINUED TO EXPLAIN TO THE PUBLIC ALL OTHER JURISDICTIONS OF THE ACT REGARDING FLOODING. DAVID LAND - REFERRED TO THE 10-ACRE WATER STORAGE AND THE PHOTOGRAPH. ENGR. - IT IS 1/4 ACRE. ALSO CALLED DEP, COULD NOT ESTIMATE FROM A PHOTO. DAVID LANG ONLY FOCUSING ON ISOLATED LAND SUBJECT TO FLOODING. ENGR. - IT IS NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION. NANCY LODGE - IS CONFUSED, WE SHOULD MAKE A DETERMINATION BY DIGGING. GENERAL PUBLIC SUSAN BACON OF 5 CHUBB BROOK - STATED THAT THE LAND IS EXTREMELY WET AND IS FLOODING. 2 YEARS AGO SHE TOOK OUT FLOOD INSURANCE. SHE HAS SMALL CHILDREN AND IS CONCERNED WITH THE BROOK RUNNING HIGH. CONTINUED TO SAY HOW EXTREMELY NERVOUS SHE iS. LORRAINE DOWNEY OF 695 HALE STREET - RE: FILLING, WHY ARE THE OWNERS ASKING NOW FINN - AFTER VISITS BY CONSERVATION COMMISSION MEMBERS, OWNER WANTED REASSURANCE FROM THE COMMISSION. THE POOL WAS BUILT APPROXIMATELY IN 1984-1985. BILL LISS - DOES NOT REMEMBER ANYTHING RE: THE POOL. HE STATED THAT WAS A MEMBER SURING THAT TIME JAY FILOMENA OF 23 OAK STREET - WAS THERE PERMISSION FOR THE POOL? CHAIRMAN - STATED NOTHING FORMAL. MARK LOGAN OF 8 CHUBBS BROOK LANE REFERRED TO THE MAY 15, 1992 LETTER IT STATES ONE SENTENCE AND HE READ THE LETTER. IT IS VERY NEBULOUS. ENGR. - WHAT IS THE JURISDICTION OF THE CONSERVATION COMMISSION? LOGAN - REFERS TO "ACTIVITIES" ONLY. GLENN TERRY - CLARIFIED TO LOGAN RE: ACTIVITIES. LOGAN - HAS CONCERNS BEING HE IS IN A FLOOD ZONE, AND HE MAS AN UNDERGROUND PIPE IN HIS BACKYARD, WITH 2 FRENCH DRAINS THAT CONNECT TO AN UNDERWATER STREAM. HIS YARD IS UNDER WATER 4 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR. SUSAN WILSON OF 149 VALLEY STREET - HAS A VIDEO (FROM THE FORMER OWNER) OF THE STREAM AFTER THE FILLING. DEBORAH GORSLINE OF 143 VALLEY STREET REFERRED TO O'CONNOR LETTER AND WHY DID THE CONSERVATION COMMISSION ACCEPT IT AFTER THE FILLING OCCURRED. THERE IS NO DOCUMENTATION ALSO TO KEEP THE MEETING OPEN FOR SOIL TESTING. ATTY. WM. DI MENTO 990 PARADISE RD., SWAMPSCOTT. REFERRED TO A REQUEST FOR A DETERMINATION OF APPLICABILITY, THE O'CONNORS SHOULD HAVE FILED FOR ONE. THE HEARING SHOULD BE CONTINUED THE BURDEN IS ON MR. FINN TO PROVE THERE IS NOT AN IMPACT AND TO PROVE IT IS NOT A WETLAND. ALSO REFERRED TO MARK LOGAN, WATER BEING ON HIS LAND. TUDOR LELAND OF 783 HALE STREET-THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF LAND ABUTTING THE PROJECT. HE HAS DESIGNED HOUSES, AND HAS DONE WORK ON THE WATERFRONT IN MANCHESTER BY THE SEA. STATED THERE ARE AREAS THAT ARE LOWER IN LOTS 3, 4 AND 5. TOP IS NOT SHOWN CORRECTLY OR NOT AT ALL. THE WATER TABLE SHOULD BE RECHECKED. REFERRING TO A TOTAL OF 80,000 GALLONS OF WATER FROM A STORM. HOW WILL IT BE ABSORBED? GERRY DE NAPOLI OF 6 CHUBRS BROOK LANE, ALSO HAS FLOOD INSURANCE. ALONG THE BROOK IS THE FLOOD PLAIN. THE BEVERLY ORDINANCE RESTRICTS DEVELOPMENT IN THOSE AREAS. TUDOR LELAND - STATED THAT 21.1% OF THE LAND WILL BE HOTTOPPED (FOUNDATION) THERE WiLL BE A BIG DIFFERENCE !N THE AMOUNT OF RUNOFF. FINN- YES, ALL UNDER THE FLOOD PLAIN AND ALL BELOW 24.5'. 24. 5' IS THE LEVEL OF A 100 YEAR STORM. TOO CLOSE WITH A 3' DROP TO THE MANHOLE, THE CHANGE WELL BE NEGLIGIBLE ALL IS IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. ELEVATION SHOWN 24 & 26, IT WILL BE FULLY BUILT AND FULLY DEVELOPED FOR A 6-LOT SHBDIVISION (DPW COMMISSIONER) NANCY LODGE - ASKED ABOUT BLASTING? FINN - HOPES NOT, THERE COULD BE LEDGE. COUNCILLOR MURRAY - THE CONSERVATION COMMISSION SHOULD REQUIRE ADDITIONAL TESTS. AREA WAS A POND / WETLAND. ALSO REFERRED TO GILMORE'S LETTER AND THE PHOTO (LAST WEEK). AND ALSO THE TESTIMONY OF THE 2 FORMER OWNERS: TALBOT AND MASFORALL BOTH REFERRED THAT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO GROW ANYTHING, BEING VERY WET, AND USED AS A SKATING POND. ALSO, REFERRING TO IT BEING A 26 ACRE PROPERTY AND TO THE SITE WALK. QUESTIONED THE END OF THE LOT AND THE TESTING OF CHUBBS BROOK PEOPLE. HE SAW LOGAN'S HOUSE - THE WATER APPROACHING THE FOUNDATION OF THE HOUSE. AGAIN, HE ADDED TO DO TEST BORINGS. POINT BEING THE AREA WAS FILLED AND THE YARDS HAVE BEEN FLOODED. TO THE CONSERVATION COMMISSION TO TEST THE VELOCITY OF WATER AS ONE ENTERS ON HALE STREET AND EXITS ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. ALSO, THE LETTER FROM THE PUBLIC WORKS COMMISSIONER, HE SHOULD MAKE A SITE VISIT. THE O'CONNOR'S DID BRING THE HOUSE BACK FROM A DEPLORABLE CONDITION. NANCY LODGE - AGREES WITH COUNCILLOR MURRAY, WE SHOULD HAVE TEST BORINGS. DR. MAYO JOHNSON - ASSUMING TEST BORINGS WERE DONE / STANDING WATER. HOW WOULD A DECISION BE MADE NOW. CHAIRMAN - IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND OUT NOW HOW MUCH WATER IS THERE. DAVID LANG - AGREES WITH THE CHAIRMAN, BUT WANTS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, TO DO TEST BORINGS / TEST PITS. AND WOULD CREATE A TOPO MAP. ENGR. - TO DATE WHEN THE FILL WAS DONE WOULD BE INACCURATE. DAVID LANG - TO COMPARE IT WITH THE 1987 PHOTO, IT WOULD SHOW THE DEPRESSION. COUNCILLOR MURRAY - REFERRED TO THE WETLANDS ACT. BiLL LISS.- IT BEGAN IN 1973. DO WE HAVE THE TOPO INFORMATION ON THAT LOT, AND TO COMPARE THE PAST WITH THE PRESENT. IF THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE, WE SHOULD CLOSE THE HEARING. FINN - DOES NOT WANT TO SUPPLY FURTHER INFORMATiON, MRS. O'CONNOR SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD, AT THE TIME, TO FILE. NOTHING WAS SAID TO THE O'CONNORS. FINN EXPLAINED COMPENSATORY STORAGE. TO CREATE A PIT AND GO ON A HUNT TO EXPLORE THE FILLING. NANCY LODGE - REMEMBERS PETER GILMORE GOING OUT THERE. IT WAS NOT A BIG DEAL AT THE TIME. COUNCILLOR MURRAY - HAS A COPY OF THE BUILDING PERMIT. POOL (6- 26-85). THE FILL BEGAN IN 1984 AND ACCELERATED AFTER THE POOL WAS PUT IN. DAVID LANG - WANTS TO SUSPEND THE HEARING AND WANTS MORE iNFORMATiON. DEBORAH GORSLINE- REFERRED TO TREES SEEN ON THE SITE VISIT, WILL THEY BE COMING DOWN? ALSO REFERRING TO THE REGS / NON-SIGNIFICANT RULING. NANCY LODGE - RE: TO THE WILDLIFE. ENGR. - WILDLIFE STUDY, MUST BE NEAR 50' OF A BANK. DR. MAYO JOHNSON - WHY ARE WE REFERRING TO THE PAST, WE SHOULD BE DEALING WITH THE PRESENT PROJECT. DAVID LANG - TALKED TO DEP, THEY SUGGESTED TO SUSPEND THE HEARING OR TO ISSUE AN ENFORCEMENT ACTION. CHAIRMAN - WANTS A MOTION TO CLOSE. NANCY LODGE - DOES NOT WANT TO CLOSE. DAVID LANG - MOTIONED TO SUSPEND THE HEARING FOR MORE INFORMATION AND NANCY SECONDED HIS MOTION. BILL LISS - DISCUSSION. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT A REQUEST WAS NEVER FILED. BUT WITH THE LETTER ON FILE BILL LISS MOTIONED TO CLOSE BEING THE INFORMATION IS SUFFICIENT, ALSO WHY NOW IS THIS AN ISSUE? THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BRING IT UP. GLENN TERRY - AGREES WITH BILL LISS AND REFERRED TO THE LETTER. HE FEELS THE FILLING IS NEGATIVE. IN PREVIOUS YEARS MEMBERS HAVE GONE OUT. DAVID LANG - REFERS TO THE FLOODING AND THE STORAGE AND STILL WANTS MORE INFORMATION AND STILL ON THE FLOOR A MOTION, TO SUSPEND. IT FAILS. CLAYTON SMALL MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE HEARING, INFORMATION IS SUFFICIENT AND GLENN TERRY SECONDED THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR. - 5 - MINUTE RECESS AT THIS TIME- RECONVENE - CLAYTON SMALL MOTIONED TO DO SO, AND DR. MAYO JOHNSON ALL IN FAVOR. FURTHER DISCUSSION AFTER THE CLOSING CLAYTON SMALL - TO FILE AN ENFORCEMENT ORDER. A MOTION TO ISSUE IT WHETHER AREA IS / WAS FILLED OR NOT. GLENN TERRY - ENFORCEMENT ORDER ON WHAT? IT IS NOT ALLEGED. DAVID LANG - IT COULD BE OUTSIDE THE PROJECT, TO DO ADDITIONAL TESTING. GLENN TERRY - A LAWYER COULD SAY DON'T DO ANYTHING. BILL LISS - IT IS SAD, THERE BEING NO REQUEST. IF AN ENGINEER IS HIRED RE: THE 1/4 ACRE, WHO DOES THE HIRING AND WHO WOULD DETERMINE THE OUTCOME OF THE FINDINGS. ON THE ABUTTER'S SIDE - COULD GET 2 DIFFERENT SIDES OF 2 DIFFERENT EXPERTS. NANCY LODGE - REFERRED TO THE CITY / CITY SOLICITOR. CHAIRMAN AND GLENN TERRY - THERE ARE NO RESOURCES TO DO ANYTHING. DAVID LANG - REFERRING TO PREVIOUS OPINIONS, THEY ARE NOT VALID. GLENN TERRY - WE CANNOT DETERMINE. BILL LISS - ONLY OTHER THING, FILLING, 8 YEARS OF FILLING, NOTHING UNTIL THE END OF THE FILLING? ALL WAS DONE OUTSIDE OF THE BUFFER ZONE. IF 1/4 ACRE OF WATER IS DISPLACED, THERE IS NO NEED TO FILE A REQUEST. COMPLAINTS NOW ARE NOT WETLAND ISSUES. DAVID LANG - MOTIONED TO ISSUE AN ENFORCEMENT ORDER AND NANCY LODGE SECONDED THE MOTION. GLENN TERRY - ISSUE THE ENFORCEMENT ORDER TO WHO? CHAIRMAN - TO THE OWNERS. GLENN TERRY - WHATHAPPENS TO THIS PERMIT? CHAIRMAN AND GLENN TERRY - WHY AN ENFORCEMENT ORDER? BILL LISS - REMEMBERS ONE THING, SKATING - THE WATER WAS AUGMENTED BY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. CHAIRMAN VOTE UP OR DOWN. COULD DENY THE ORDER OF CONDITIONS AND IT WILL GO TO THE STATE. IN FAVOR - NANCY LODGE, DAVID LANG, CLAYTON SMALL. AGAINST BILL LISS, DR.MAYO JOHNSON, GLENN TERRY & THE CHAIRMAN. DR. MAYO JOHNSON MOTIONED TO DO THE ORDER OF CONDITIONS TONIGHT AND CLAYTON SMALL SECONDED THE MOTION. NANCY LODGE IS IN OPPOSITION ALL IN FAVOR. DAVID LAND HAD TO LEAVE AT THIS TIME TO BE AT ANOTHER MEETING. 9:20 P.M. ORDERS OF CONDITIONS FOR 759 HALE STREET. CLAYTON SMALL MOTIONED FOR THE STANDARDS AND GLENN TERRY SECONDED THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR. NANCY LODGE - OPPOSED. TODD SWIMMING POOL 4 BROOKS CIRCLE. CLAYTON SMALL MOTIONED FOR THE STANDARDS AND GLENN TERRY SECONDED THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR. DISCUSSION NEXT MEETING TO VOTE FOR A VICE CHAIRMAN. NEW BUSINESS - BEVERLY HOSPITAL AND ENDICOTT COLLEGE @ JUNE 21ST MEETING. ADJOURNMENT: CLAYTON SMALL MOTIONED TO ADJOURN AT 9:30 P.M. BILL LISS SECONDED THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR.