1999-09-08City of Beverly, Massachusetts
Public Meeting Minutes
BOARD: Norwood Pond Commission
SUBCOMMITTEE:
DATE: September 8, 1999
PLACE: Beverly City Hall
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairperson Don Martin, Vice Chairman Neiland
Douglas, Tina Cassidy, William Frost, David Lang,
J. Michael Lawler, Virginia McGlynn, Joyce McMahon
ABSENT: Kevin Burke, Todd Lampert
OTHERS PRESENT:
RECORDER: Jeannine Dion
Chairperson Don Martin called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Martin states the Commission's work will be wrapped up at the end of the year. A
member of the public asks why the Chairperson believes Dece, mber has been set as the
deadline. Martin states the work could be complete in January or February, but his goal
is the end of the year.
Approval of Meeting Minutes: June 9, 1999
MeMahon: Motion to approve Jane 9, 1999 meeting minutes, seconded by Douglas.
All members in favor, no one opposed. Motion carries.
Burger King Plaza Plans
Cassidy states that in July she received a call from a gentleman by the name of Maurice
Wyman who is working with the state to lease the Burger King property. Cassidy states
Wyman called the office because he obtained a copy of a letter with a schematic sketch of
the overpass and was concerned. Cassidy states Wyman had known that an overpass was
a possibility but hadn't seen anything very specific.
Cassidy states she, Neil Douglas and Frank Killilea met with Wyman on behalf of the
Commission. Cassidy states Wyman has a plan to refurbish the existing Burger King and
add to the building (gas station). Cassidy states Wyman will have some zoning issues
because gas stations are not allowed in that zoning district, and will have to go before the
Zoning Board of Appeals to follow through on that plan. Cassidy states she believes it
was a very productive meeting, at which they discussed the outline of the overpass as we
~know it as this point and Wyman had concerns about the placement of the ramp and how
it might affect his business and access.
Norwood Pond Commission Minutes
September 8, 1999
Page 2
Cassidy states Bill Lyons fi'om the consulting firm of HTSD, Inc. pmvided Wyman with
information. She states she told Wyman the consultant would take a look at his
development plan to see how the overpass will affect his plan and the City would get
hack in touch with him if there are any significant issues.
Cassidy states she will keep the Commission members updated.
Killilea states he agreed to exchange plans but there were no agreement that changes
would be made. Killilea states it was an informational exchange.
Norwood Pond Dam Visit
Frost reports Pare Kampersal, Renee Mary and Virginia MeGlynn attended the site visit.
Frost states he has two videos which could be shown to the commission, Frost states the
water level is very low, the spillway is cluttered with debris (trees, mud, etc.) and asks if
the others who were present at the visit would like to comment.
Renee Mary, 274 Hale Street states them was an orange stream on the backside of the
spillway.
McGlyrm states it looked like the dam had been neglected over the years.
Kamporsal states she has been in contact with D.E.M. and the contact person sent a copy
of the dam report that the consulting firm of Weston and Sampson prepared. Kampersal
states the report calls for near immediate attention to this darn, and reads firom the
aforementioned report, which classifies the dam as a Class 2 dam.
Kampersal states she spoke with D.E.M. personnel and they did not know who owned the
dam. Kampersal states no one she has spoken with in the City knows who owns the dam
either. Cassidy asks if Kampersal will allow her to borrow the report for a day so that she
could make a copy. Kampersal states the report is an unofficial report until the ownei of
the dam is determined.
Kampersal states that none of the following are in place for this dam: operational
procedures, maintenance plan, operational facility, formal emergency warning system, or
formal emergency action plan. Kampersal states the consultants' report recommends that
D.E.M. (or whomever owns the dam) evaluate the structural integrity and complete a
detailed stability analysis of the darn, complete a detailed hydraulic and hydrogeological
analysis, repair the dam and prepare an emergency action plan. Kampersal states the
estimated cost for the recommended remedies is $18,600.
Douglas states his guess is the $18,600 is the cost for the study. Martin states he believes
the cost to repair it would be much more.
Norwood Pond Commission Minutes
September 8, 1999
Page 3
Killilea states he believes it is a stretch to call the dam a "intermediate dmn,' since the
dam is very small. Kampersal states it is in poor condition and needs immediate
attention. Killilea notes that a mad would have to be built to get to the dam.
There is discussion about repair of the flashboards. Killilea states whoever moves the
boards is going to cause a change of coaditions upstream and downstream and they better
know what they are doing before they move them.
Douglas states that perhaps the Commission could speak with Marshall Handly about the
situation at the dam.
Lang asked if the problem is that the City is reluctant to assume the liability of owning
the dam and Kampersal responds 'yes'.
Kampersal states the cement part of the dam is pretty stable and that the report
recommends that some type of a pipe be put in underneath the dam to protect against
flooding. Kamporsal states that would be an expensive proposition, and Killilea agrees.
There is some discussion about the question of whether the structures (and the
responsibility for them) reverted to the City with the land. Lang states if there is a steel
pipe there, it can be determined who owns it. Lang states whoever owns the land is stuck
with the dam, it doesn't matter who built it.
Nardella asks if the report is a draft report. Kampersal states the report was sent to her
unofficially.
Lawler asks if the City does not own the land, who else could possibly own it.
Kampersal responds that the state could own it.
Douglas states he is sure Marshall Handly will research this subject further.
Douglas:
motion to ask Marshall Handly to research the issue of ownership of the
dam further and report back to the Norwood Pond Commission, seconded
by McMahon. All members in favor. Motion carries.
Norwood Pond Commission Minutes
September 8, 1999
Page 4
Discussion on Norwood Pond
Martin asks if there are any comments ~om members on the Norwood Pond study
prepared by Bayside Engineering.
Cassidy states one of the recorarnended action plans discussed was Best Management
Practices (hereinafter referred to as "BMPs") in the watershed. Cassidy states she does
not know a lot about BMPs and asks if any members might have suggestions regarding
BMPso
Lang states it is a difficult topic. The cky 1) can manage the pond as it has in the past or
remove some sediments. Lang states that has been done on other ponds in
Massachusetts. Lang states there is a project elsewhere in the state where someone is
proposing to convert a wetland area into a pond, and it is not going very well for the
applicant ~om a permitting perspective. Lang states he has concerns about taking a
wetland habitat that is functioning well and changing it to a pond.
' Lang suggests the Commition might want to get mere advico on BMPs.
Douglas states the report is pretty complete, containing three recommendations:
1. Reconstruction of the dam,
2. Embracing Best Management Practices (included BMPs in the by-laws),
3. Dredging the pond.
Douglas believes dredging the pond is a pretty radical action while the cost would be
enormous and the impact would he inconsequential. Douglas states he would feel more
comfortable with a indepth study and reiterates the importance of determining the dam's
owner.
Lang agrees with Douglas' belief that dredging is a radical action and costly. He states
other communities have done it, however it needs much more study and public
discussion. Lang states he would like to create the Norwood Pond often or fitleen years
ago, which was a great place to he.
Nardella asks Lang if the D.E.P. discourages dredging. Lang states he would have to
research it, but he has heard secondhand that they stopped Billings Pond dredging in
Lynn field.
Nardella asks, if Best Management Practices (BMPs) had been used over the past 30
years, would the pond would he in its current condition. Lang states he is not sure how to
find that out, and notes that the Baystate report downplays the role of the landfill. Lang
states when the testing was done for that study, it was done in a large body of water,
which is not a true representation.
Norwood Pond Commission Minutes
September 8, 1999
Page 5
Nardella adds that a lack of maintenance, nearby septic systems and fertilization all could
have contributed to the problem over a 30-year period. Nardella states he would like to
have a better understanding of the issues such as BMPs and the longterm effects of BMPs
and then move on from there.
Lang states a possible approach could he to implement BMPs, propose a study every 5
years and then analyze the data.. Lang states you could then implement more radical
changes to affect change.
Kampersal states her association has been in existence since 1994, Ires done a lot of
research over the years and can answer a lot of the questions being raised.
Lang asks Kampersal ifsbe knows what stopped the project at Billings Pond in
Lynn~eM. Kampersal responds that the contractor on the project was selling the topsoil
and wasn't working as quickly as be should have. Kampersal recommends the
Commission consider inviting the former Commissioner from the Conservation
Commission in Lynnfield to a future meeting if he is willing to attend. Lang states he
would like to know why the project stopped. ,
Frost believes that if the City wants to pursue restoration of the dam, the pond needs to
get into the Master Plan and also should be on the Open Space Committce's agenda in
order to qualify for fund& C, assidy states you have to identify the project as one of your
actions and that makes it eligible for a grant application.
Lang states he is not sure if be is prepared to do anything on this topic now, and Lang
recommends inviting a speaker to the next meeting.
Nardella states in the short-term he believes the Commission should be clear that if the
dam is in fact owned by the City, the Commission should recommend implememation of
at least some intermediate steps.
Douglas states he does not feel uncomfortable at all about supporting preservation of the
pond, and states the City of Beverly has three significant bodies of water and they are
important assets.
Nardella agrees with Doughs and states it is also his internion to preserve and maintain
Norwood Pond. Nardella states it will cease to be a pond if no action is taken to preserve
it.
Martin asks Kampersal for the name of the man from Lynnfield. Kampersal states she
would like to speak with him furst before offering his name publicly.
Economic and Community Development Council Report
Nonvood Pond Commission Minutes
September 8, 1999
Page 6
McMahon states the report was finalized on September 2, 1999. McMahon explains that
the report is based on assumptions and on information available today and predicts what
ill happen in coming years. McMahon outlines the assumptions used in the report.
McMahon states the conclusion oftbe report was "the construction of an overpass and
interchange at Route 128 and Dimham Road/Norwood Pond will facilitate development
of land in that area. The ECDC's conservative estimates show that the City stands to
increase its commercial and industrial tax revenues by $640,000 per year... Should the
area under study be developed, in approximately 20 years it would represent: 1 ) over
20°4 of Beverly's total industrial tax value, and 2) a 50% increase in the area's tax
revenue paid to the City."
McMahon states the Council sought the opinion of a Master Appraiser by the name of
Mr. Bill LaChance. Based on the same assumptions/information used to formulate the
estimate, LaChance estimated potential tax revenue to be $I .2 to $1.5 million. McMahon
states the Council feels its estimate is very conservative.
Martin asks if any member of ECDC opposed any pan of this report. McMahon responds
that the members voted unanimously on the report. The members bad a general
understanding that the $640,000 in taxes would result in millions of dollars in bond
financing capacity.
Lang asks what poreantage of the 50+ acres is wetlands. McMahon states the Council did
not include any wetlands in its calculations: all were deducted from the area of study.
McMahon states ECDC used information that is concrete and available to date.
Nardella states he would like to have some time to look at the report. Nardella states the
information is interesting but he has "quality of life" issues he will consider as well.
Nardella states the City can stand to benefit from increased industrial tax revenues,
however he dries not look at projections of industrial tax revenue as necessarily a "make
or break" factor on whether or not the overpass concept is good. Nardella states he thihks
this is very helpful information and it should be a factor.
Martin states he would like to echo Nardella's commems.
Lang states he does not agree, and that he would be willing to buy into quality of life for
a few million dollars. Lang states he is still concemed that all benefiting owners should
participate in funding the overpass project. Lang states he believes more people have to
participate in this fmancially in order for the project to make f'mancial sense.
Nardella states he does not disagree with Lang's commems at all.
New/Other Business
Norwood Pond Commission Minutes
September 8, 1999
Page 7
Douglas brings up the issue of the conceptual plans regarding the overpass. City
Engineer, Frank Killilea states there was a meeting with Maurice Wyman regarding
Burger King and that Bill Lyons has iefc the firm of HTSD. Killilea states he met with
HTSD this aRemoon and they explained the transition and will assign other very capable
people to the project.
Douglas asks if they are on a realistic schedule and thinks the preliminary ov~s
design phase should he wrapped up by the end of this year. Killilea responds that the
concept phase was planned to take 9 months, and that the report that Lyons gave him in
June contained traffic counts and geometries. Killilea states he believes they are now
involved with the environmental considerations but he has not seen a progress report
recently.
Douglas asks when the concept plan will be presented to the community. Killilea states
he is not sure that there is a further developed plan at this point. Cassidy states that she
had two members of the Commission outside of the meeting mention that they had
questions and concerns regarding the overpass. Cassidy states she would like to set up a
workshop where members could get questions answered regarding design issues.
Douglas states he thinks there needs to be some unanimity regarding the concept plan.
Martin recommends setting up a workshop for next month's meeting at the November
meeting.
Douglas recommends further deliberation regarding dam remediation and Best
Management Practices as a subject of the next meeting.
Land fill Closure
IAmg asks Killilea to give a brief update on the landfill closure. Killilea responds that it
is 70% complete. The cap is down over the entire 30 acres and they are putting dowfi a
geocomposite material, which aids in the water running off the cap. Killilea states when
that is in place, then they will start pushing the sand up on the entire membrane (end of
the month) followed by topsoil.
Martin asks if the cap project is on schedule. Killilea responds that it is.
Lang asks if the topsoil will go on in the spring. Killilea responds that the contractor is
planning to put on the topsoil this fall and that the contractor is responsible to get the
grass growing, whether he does it this fall or next spring. Killilea states one of the big
factors will be the weather and the contractor is optimistic that he can hydroseed this
season.
Norwood Pond Commission Minutes
September 8, 1999
Page 8
Public Comment
Martin asks if there are any comments from the public.
Dan D'Angelis asks if the Commission could explain the methodology of the expert, Mr.
LaChance regarding the ECDC report. McMahon reads an excerpt from the report.
D'Angelis asks if he could obtain a copy of the Intemhange Feasibility Study. Cassidy
states she will provide a copy to him.
D'Angelis expresses interest in attending the workshop discussed earlier and asked if it
would he open to the public. Cassidy responds that would be up to the members.
Cassidy states there is a requirement to hold public meetings however, the workshop
would not be open to the public for comments and questions - it is an informational
exchange for the Commission members and the consultant.
Ron Johnsen states he thinks the public should he able to go to the workshop for
informational purposes. He states the overpass development would likely have negative
impacts on the pond and he does not agree that the overpass would provide needed access
to the pond.
Kathy Burack states the overpass project opens up the Norwood Pond site to people
outside Beverly and that may not be what the city wants. McMahon states she grew up in
Beverly and did not know Norwood Pond existed until she was a teenager. She disagrees
that the only people using the overpass would be non-residents. Burhack states she
believes that if you open up access, it opens up a broader amount of people.
Renee Mary, 274 Hale Street asks about Mr. LaChance's appraisal of property along Sam
Fonzo Drive. Cassidy states the appraisal will be available by October.
Kampersal states she has lived near Norwood Pond for sixteen years and she has seen'
many changes. She states there is more noise because the Maestranzi Brothers decision
to cut down part of the forest on their property.
Martin states that the public will be allowed to attend the workshop, when it is held.
Cassidy states the next meeting will be held on October 6, 1999.
Douglas:
Motion to adjourn, seconded by Lang. All members in favor, no one
opposed. Motion carries.
The meeting is adjourned at 9:00 p.m.